Accuracy by volume - Why airsoft snipers are ineffective.
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The "Accuracy by volume - Why airsoft snipers are ineffective." video is part of the Best Airsoft Sniper Rifles category, which contains similar videos like this one.
And If you didn’t know, heavier weight bbs fly a lot further than lighter weight bbs and more accurately. For example, on my SSG10, using 0.32 gram bbs I would get around 230 feet of range (which I measured with a 330 feet measuring tape) but when I switched to 0.40 gram bbs, the bbs shot around 270-300 feet. Also, heavier wieght bbs aren’t effected by the wind as much as much which makes them way more accurate than regular AEGs.
AEGs, GBRs and HPA guns are quite loud and you give your position away pretty much instantly even at 200+ft.
Bolt Action Rifles however tend to be really silent and are pretty much impossible to hear at the effective range of the sniper role.
Esp. in woodland and with camo that atleast somewhat suits your environment (i am not even talking about gillies here, just your normal airsoft attire with a fitting camo pattern),
the enemy players have a really hard time to actually 1. make out that they are even shot at and 2. make out from where they are shot at
Thats esp. powerful if you flank the enemy and a lot of the time the enemy assumes (if they even realize that they are getting shot at) that the fire comes from the direction of the front line, meaning you dont even give up the advantage of the flank as soon as you open fire, like you would do with other systems.
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Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
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Enjoy your feast and have a good start in the new year!
10. comment for Accuracy by volume - Why airsoft snipers are ineffective.
1:15 - "They all use the same hop up system to be accurate." This is certainly not true. There are BASR hop up units that can be tuned more specifically than AEG units, including left/right adjustment. Force application and retention on the bucking is also different. That doesn't include accuracy improvements from BB weight and quality, and while it's possible to use high quality heavy BBs in AEG's, I doubt the accuracy by volume tactic still applies then ($$$'s).
1:28 - "Differences in minimum engagement distances (rifleman, DMR, sniper)." I agree with OPs assessment of average MEDs. This is some important context. If there DMR rules are allowed on the field and the joule limits are less than 0.5J and MED is 50' less than for BASR, the DMR is the superior choice. It also matters if the DMR is allowed full-auto or delayed follow up. As more advantages are given to the DMR class, the less advantageous the BASR class becomes. Many fields do not allow DMR roles, which makes the BASR a legitimate role, especially if the joule limit for BASRs is 2.8J or more while the rifleman is set at 1.5J. A quality secondary paired with a DMR rifle virtually eliminates their MED disadvantage while retaining its range advantage against most rifleman. This problem is why most fields did away with the DMR roles in the early aughts, because it created a pay-to-win factor in the game (I remember fully tuned 470fps TM PSG-1's just wrecking everyone and ruining the day for most players 15 years ago).
2:22 - Engaging at maximum range vs effective range. OP's assumptions are sound, but again only for most; context leaves room for many exceptions, particularly when you factor in BB weight, quality, or temp and wind.
2:34 - "Probably better off not taking the shot and giving away your position." There's a tremendous amount of context to consider here outside of the max/effective range question. A well suppressed and air-sealed rifle, like my example, will not give away your position on shot, especially at ranges of 250'. It's not hard to find video of people having no idea where a shot is coming from at longer ranges, and also not finding the shooter.
4:50 - "The main problem with the BASR is that the range that it has the most advantage is where it is least accurate, and it doesn't have the rate of fire to make up for that lack of accuracy." This is only a problem if you continually play with your BASR at or near the maximum range, which is probably how most BASR players try to play. The most effective way to play the BASR (holding the same assumptions on effective and max ranges) is where the rifleman and BASR do not overlap (see my previous point on DMRs for why I'm not addressing the DMR class here), which is the 150 to 250 foot range. This is where player mobility and awareness take over in importance to gun quality of any role. Understanding when you as a BASR player are in that sweet spot takes many, many hours of play (I've been using a variant of a fully teched out VSR-10 for more than 12 years). It's in this sweet spot where you know you'll only need one shot to take the target, especially if they are unaware of your position. If you don't move well, if you don't have proper on-body concealment, or you don't know proper visual angles, you're gonna have a bad time.
5:25 - "[Due to accuracy by volume at 200' for a rifleman] the rifleman is going to be able to put shots on the sniper and the sniper is going to have to disengage." Again, heavily context dependent. I'm generally only taking shots in the sweet spot from good cover, where accuracy by volume applies less. Precision is much more important in that context. And even if this scenario occurs, most of the BASR role is about mobility, so knowing where your secondary and tertiary retreat spots are based on possible advancements by the enemy is absolutely crucial. Keeping targets in your sweet spot is key. If you're playing your BASR to just not move and take long shots, this scenario will occur quite often, which is why most BASR players are ineffective.
5:42 - Engagement at or near the MED. Again, more context is required here. The BASR is extremely, and far more so than any other role, dependent upon their secondary weapon choice. I use a very well tuned Hicapa that has an effective range of 150', and sometimes I'll add a shower grenade launcher, several hand grenades, or a KJW Mac10. I usually split my kills 50:50 with my pistol and rifle, and there are many games I get more with my pistol. I find that ratio increases the less familiar I am with the field. The majority of the time I'm moving pistol drawn ready for shots (unless I'm repositioning in safe territory with multiple forward friendlies) until I reach a good sweet spot position with cover to take my BASR shots. A good secondary significantly reduces the MED disadvantage of a BASR role vs. others, and I would say it's absolutely crucial to playing the BASR role well. If you don't have a good secondary and don't use it well, you won't have confidence in your movement and you'll play poorly due to the majoritarian cases OP makes in the video, or you'll be tied to the hip of your spotter (a perfectly legit way to play the BASR role as well, especially in milsim reconniasance roles).
7:00 - A note on the superiority of the support gunner role. If you're playing a support gunner roles to get kills by just taking advantage of the accuracy by volume principle with the FPS and ROF and capacity advantages, you're buying into the pay-to-win factor I previously mentioned. Plus, then you're not really support gunning, you're just a full-auto DMR. The role of the support gunner is to provide suppressive fire to enable friendly repositioning by pinning down targets. I built my M249 with a high torque motor, 32:1 gear set with a quality barrel and hop up setup so that it shoots less than 10 RPS, so I can just hold the trigger down indefinitely, to enable long periods of suppressive fire without burning things out. Just something to consider.
7:45 - A note on HPA sniper kits. Having owned a couple HPA'd VSR's, I've found that the mediocre ROF increase and pressure modularity to be a poor trade-off with the added weight and hose for mobility purposes. If you just want to pump long range shots downfield and not move well, play DMR or support.
8:42 - A note to new players on playing the BASR. I agree with OP's points. Generally, new players don't understand proper player mobility, engagement patterns (i.e., majority of shooters are right handed and therefore will come from the left to cover their body on corners), or their individual BASR's performance (where their sweet spot is). And they haven't sunk the time, effort, and dollars into making their BASR a precision tool. It is much better to learn the game as an underpowered rifleman to learn the importance of the aforementioned before transitioning to the role(s) you'll eventually want to play.
OP's points on BASRs are true for the majority of BASR players. But with proper mobility, technique, and gun/ammo kit that most are unwilling to obtain, the role can be very effective in play.
Playing a sniper role in airsoft
Being effective is not always shooting another player Just another player thinking now I said thinking that they can be hit at 300 feet or more You know like when somebody say cover me Same thing goes for being a Airsoft sniper Especially if you have a well tuned sniper gun were a player don't know where the shots are coming from Now that's being A game changer
I could be wrong i'm just saying
you tell me
Sniping like you point out should really only stay with more experienced players who understand the advantages/disadvantages of most platforms.
Too many new players trying to snipe burn out because they don't have the experience or know how. Plus new players using snipers end up with a lack of aggressiveness due to the idea of what they think airsoft sniper rifles can do which can severely hamper a team in competitive games.
Where im from 1.7 J is rifle man and 2.2 J is DMR. And the concensus here is that two upgraded rifles have more or less the same effective range (On a inanimate) object. The only difference is the speed of the same weight bb. (Result of test with Aegs with same cylinder size).
Test with larger cylinder, like the v2.5 gearbox, did have longer effective range.
Rifleman 1.48 Joule
DMR 1.88 Joule
Sniper 2.81 Joule
20. comment for Accuracy by volume - Why airsoft snipers are ineffective.
Snipers can however get rid of stalemates as the can harass the positions that pin people down. They can also cause stalemates because too many people sniping means noone is pushing. My personal plan is running a DMR (German laws have semi-auto only above 0,5 J anyway) with a tuned TM G-spec (small and lightweight) sniper on my back.
Oh and i dont do facebook, can i get a patch?
That poor G&G M14 Veteran is still relevant in the modern airsoft field. I remember playing a game at the Plattsmouth field and Vector brought out his LRF and we measured it out. I was minute of man with that gun to 82.6 yards with a slight quartering wind and a slight hold over.
Loved that AEG for how simple and reliable it was... and dirty accurate when everyone else was stuck at about 50 yards of range!
Joking aside, I agree. Airsofters, in general, tend to overestimate on a lot of things. Quality of guns, quality of parts, their modding skills, range of the guns, accuracy of the guns, ability to loft heavy BB's, etc.
I'm still not buying R-Hops and Flat hops adding range without changing other variables. Truth is, there is only so much rotation a BB moving at a certain speed can have imparted on it and maintain a flat-ish trajectory. If you can overhop your BB, you aren't getting anything by swapping to the new wizzbang units.
But lofting heavier BB's? Yeah absolutely. Does that mean longer range? Potentially. You'd have to test the setup to see. I found that 380 FPS regardless of BB weight (meaning whatever BB you have moving at 380 FPS) was a pretty good mix between practical accuracy, reduced time of flight and range. When the G&G M14 Veteran was stock it was 383 +/-2 FPS with .25's and I ran .25's for a long time. I think I pushed the FPS up to the field max and swapped to .28's and continued to see excellent results. Been too long since I looked at the work I did on that gun to recall from memory unfortunately. Do you remember if I swapped the spring out before I sold it to you?